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Back to back quarterback, Part II/Mark Jalkanen

December 14, 2010
By Mark Jalkanen - DMG Web Columnist

As we continue our look at the efforts of Super Bowl winning teams to replace their championship quarterbacks in search of the rare back-to-back, successor is successful, phenomenon we move to the 1985 season and the dominant SBXX champion Chicago Bears and the not-so-dominant Jim McMahon.

While we are firmly entrenched in the camp who believes that McMahon wasn't that good, even during his best years in Chicago, the motley crew that has ventured through Halas Hall since his departure in 1988 has been lacking the talent needed to kickstart fans' hearts and has rarely made them feel good.

Interesting stat interlude: McMahon never started 16 games in any of his 15 seasons in the league. The most was 13 in his second year (1983) and even during the strike-shortened 1982 season of nine games, Jim only started seven.

Trivia: Name the six, yes SIX, teams that McMahon played with in his career. Answer at the end of the QB column.

The following list is not only depressing to Bears fans due to the dearth of talent it is also overwhelming in terms of sheer numbers. Mike Tomczak, Jim Harbaugh, Steve Walsh, Erik Kramer, Dave Krieg, Shane Matthews, Cade McNown, Jim Miller, Kordell Stewart, Chad Hutchinson, Rex Grossman, Brian Griese, and Kyle Orton have each led the team in passing in at least one of the 20 years since McMahon departed and before Jay Cutler arrived.

While Cutler may be unproven to many, he is certainly one of the better options the team has used since their lone championship year and could turn out to be the next SB winner. With 13 different quarterbacks leading the team over a 20-year period, the team is hoping that the trade for Jay will give them at least a decade of stability at a position that has had relatively little in a relatively long time.

The Giants won SB XXI with Phil Simms at the helm, and SB XXV with Jeff Hostetler stepping in to successfully finish the season, before Eli Manning arrived and hoisted the Lombardi Trophy after SB XLII.

Hostetler is more human asterisk than great replacement. He took over the team in 1990 after Simms was injured, won two regular season games, then led the Giants to two playoff wins and a SB victory over the Bills (in the early nineties everyone defeated the Bills in the Super Bowl), so we really don't give him much presence (or presents as the season dictates) on our list. Due to injuries to Simms, Hoss was also the team's leading passer the next two seasons (1991-1992) and posted a dismal 14-18 record with no playoff appearances. After Hostetler's two unsuccessful seasons leading the team, the Giants were more than happy to get a full season, and a playoff victory, out of Simms before he retired in 1993.

The decade-plus bridge from Simms to Eli Manning included speed bumps like Dave Brown, Jeff Hostetler, Danny Kanell, and some respectable years from Kerry Collins. Kurt Warner stopped in for a year, and a sandwich, between his Super Bowl his appearances with St. Louis and Arizona, and led the team in passing, but it wasn't until the Manning championship that the team knew they had finally found Simms' successor.

Since John Elway, and his titles in SB XXXII and XXXIII, walked away after the 1998 season, the Broncos have tried Brian Griese (he was no Bob), Jake Plummer (he was no Snake), may have had an answer in Jay Cutler (he's now a Bear/jury still out) before the debuilding began, and Kyle Orton (he's just Ortonary). They drafted Tim Tebow to play the role of savior in the first round this year, but we view that as another miss, so it would behoove the team to keep trying to replace "Mister Ed-way".

The Rams won SB XXXIV after the 1999 season and Kurt Warner left following the 2003 campaign. The Rams used the somewhat effective Marc Bulger in the years leading up to 2010 when Sam Bradford arrived as the top pick in the draft. While the final decision isn't in on Bradford he currently has the team leading the division, albeit at 6-7, and many believe that the team may have found their next great leader after a seven year itch, err, search.

The rest of the Super Bowl winning teams occurred in the current century, so many of the winning quarterbacks are still playing or the chosen successors haven't had enough time to determine if they are truly worthy.

While defining mediocre, Trent Dilfer rode the Ravens' defense to a championship win in SB XXXV, and although it appears that Joe Flacco could be a winner, we'll have to wait for a definitive answer.

While defining excellence, Tom Brady led the Patriots to victories in SB XXXVI, XXXVIII, and XXXIX, and is playing at a high enough level to consider another championship a very real possibility. The team may have had his successful successor on the roster in the form of Matt Cassel but considered Brady's age/longevity and decided to trade him to KC. At some point they will attempt to pull a back-to-back coup.

Note: A member of our crack staff noted that the Packers had Super Bowl quarterback Matt Hasselbeck on the roster before Rodgers arrived but due to Favre's longevity and age decided to trade him to Seattle. If Favre hadn't been able to start 297 consecutive games and Hasselbeck had been needed, it is possible that the Pack could have done the back-to-back-to-back three-peat style quarterback scenario (Favre, Hasselbeck, Rodgers).

Brad Johnson and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers won SB XXXVII. The Bucs' current quarterback, Josh Freeman, could be the real deal but considering Brad Johnson wasn't, (in our estimation) it doesn't really matter for the purposes of this column. Nevertheless, the book on Josh, though it has a good two chapters, needs to have an ending with a surprising twist.

Finally, Drew Brees led the once-woeful Saints to what many consider an improbable victory last season in SB XLIV. Brees is still going strong and, like Brady, may have at least another run or two left in him.

Now that we've covered the SB winners, it is time to shift our focus to the two teams in the North who have yet to shelve a trophy named after a former North (yes, we know) coach.

The Lions' perpetual and perennial search (ongoing since Bobby Layne left in the 50s) may finally be over, as Matthew Stafford has shown flashes of franchise potential, however, unless he stays on the field so he can flash more, we'll never know for sure. In the 50-plus years since Layne left, fans have enjoyed minor successes with the likes of Greg Landry, Gary Danielson, Eric Hipple, Erik Kramer, Rodney Peete, Dave Krieg, Scott Mitchell, and Gus Frerotte (who led the team to their last playoff appearance in 1999, which was pre-MM, the Roman Numeral for 2000, and pre-MM, the initials of the human franchise destructor), who all led the Lions to the postseason, with varying degrees of success, and zero appearances in the big game.

Also along the way such esteemed personnel as Jeff Komlo, Chuck Long, Rusty Hilger, Bob Gagliano, Charlie Batch, Andre Ware, Joey Harrington, Jon Kitna, Dan Orlovsky, and this season, Shaun Hill and Drew Stanton, have made fans long for something else as they did not venture into the postseason.

If Stafford can stay healthy, and deliver what appear to be his promising talents to the Motor City, then the 50-plus year search may finally end. If not, the list of lackeys will probably get much longer and the list of season ticket holders will do the opposite.

In Minnesota the team is hoping that they won't have to spend more than a decade looking for the man to replace Favre and his one great year. Since Daunte Culpepper departed (he was the last conference championship participant prior to last season when he lost to the Giants in 2000) the team has muddled along with Tarvaris Jackson, Brad Johnson version 2.0 (he was there from 1994-1998 and again, as a proud SB champion and former Buccaneer, from 2005-2006), and Gus Frerotte (he made a lot of appearances in this column). Jeff George paid a visit to the caved-in dome, after the Randall Cunningham glory year (1998, lost NFC Championship game to Atlanta), but since the team has never won a championship the most likely player to fit the criteria of this list would be Fran Tarkenton. Since Fran hung 'em up after his second stint with the team (he played with the Giants 1967-1970) in 1978 they have had a few near misses, mostly with retreads, and have been searching for the long-term answer. The search continues.

We outlined a total of 21 searches between 1967 and 2000 and the average time spent hunting for the successful successor is approximately 13 years. That includes six searches that took three years or less and seven that lasted more than two decades.

Of the championship teams covered, six teams (Packers, Jets, Chiefs, Cowboys, Bears, Rams) hope that they have the next great quarterback on their roster, five (Dolphins, Raiders, Niners, Redskins, Broncos) are conducting an ongoing search, and three (Colts, Steelers, Giants) have found their man.

The rare back-to-back quarterback phenomenon happened in Oakland (Stabler/Plunkett), San Francisco (Montana/Young), and possibly, if we stretch our definition (perhaps we could include "saved" jobs), Washington (Williams/Rypien). The Packers (Favre/Rodgers) could also be joining the list but it will take more time, and fewer brain injuries and losses to the Lions, to fully answer that question.

The rarity of the occurrence is not surprising although the fact that the average search lasts a whopping 13 years should open a few eyes. General managers and other evaluators should liberally spend high draft picks on quarterbacks as soon as it they have any doubt regarding their current leader. While it is unlikely that they will be as lucky (fortuitous, intelligent, etc.) as the Niners, a simple reduction in the number of years spent conducting the search may be enough to "save" their jobs.

TRIVIA ANSWER: Jim McMahon played for the Bears (1982-1988), Chargers (1989), Eagles (1990-1992), Vikings (1993), Cardinals (1994), and Packers (1995-1996). In other words, he was Jim "the journeyMcMan."


Detroit plus 6 at Tampa ---- With another chance to end their road futility, the Lions deliver and gain even more momentum for next season.

New England minus 6 versus GB ---- The uncertainty surrounding Aaron Rodgers will be of primary importance in the Sunday night tilt, but the fact that Brady never loses in Foxboro will be the deciding factor.

Chicago plus 1.5 at Minnesota ---- Nobody knows where the Monday night game will be played, which we consider a shot across the bow of the Viking ship for politicians and taxpayers in the Twin Cities. It is past the time for a new stadium.

WEAK FIFTEEN PICKS (11-13 record)

Indy minus 5 versus Jaguars ---- Peyton Manning gets a chance to move his team into a tie for the division lead and he doesn't disappoint the home fans.


It is difficult for us to get overly peeved during the holiday season, however, we read a report issued recently (Nov. 29) by the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, a fine think-tank located in our state that we often use when we can't think, or are tanked, that typifies nonsensical government spending on the out-of-touch honchos who regularly overestimate their importance and, therefore, overspend (our money) on themselves.

The city of Detroit spends $1.35 million per year providing security for Mayor Dave Bing (not related to the search engine), and his wife, as a crew of 16 police officers work as bodyguards to protect the executive family 24 hours per day.

Other dignitaries, and presumed "high-value" targets, deserving of protection include such well-known big-shots as Charles Pugh and Robert Bobb.

Huh, who is Pugh? Of course, he is the city council president who, for reasons unknown to us, and likely unknown to everyone, needs a security detail (yes, we do know about them people living in Mad Max times).

Bobb is the emergency financial manager of the Detroit Public Schools, which helps explain his desire to unnecessarily mismanage emergency finances but doesn't give the reason(s) why his detail was approved.

Aside: Perhaps Robert Bobb should have been protected from the folks who decided to name him Bob Bobb. Bob's need for safekeeping could possibly be a case of childhood insecurity, engrained in the brain during the brutal youthful years of relentless teasing, manifesting itself in the form of a large detail (size matters) now that Bobby Bobb has reached such meritorious heights in the world of entitled public employees.

More: We are trying to confirm reports that the inventor of the Cobb Salad, Bob Cobb (Robert Howard Cobb), who owned the Brown Derby restaurant in Hollywood in the thirties and made it a signature dish, has offered coping advice and/or devices for Bobb.

Continued tangent: Or if Bob Cobb, better known as "the Maestro" in Seinfeld parlance, has any tips on overcoming the Scarlet Letter-style stigma and psychological trauma from the numerous torturous rhymes.

Last tangential entry: Or if Thomas Thomas, our high school chemistry teacher, has an opinion as to whether the name Tom Tom makes those adolescent years harder to navigate than the name Bob Bobb.

If anybody needs protection and refuge, it is the taxpayers of the state. Of the $1.35 million buffer budget, just over one million is base pay for the 16-member force, while the remaining $335,000 is the absurd allotment for the five administrative members needed to run the Executive Protection Unit. Yes, you read that right; it takes five administrators to run a 16 person unit.

Since the 16 members are unionized, (we're certain there is nothing improper here) we assume (you/me) that if the Mayor needs to change a light bulb they will call in three additional "experts" to help supervise and perform the task, unless it is one of those mandated green bulbs (CFC/CFL), in which case the number of experienced and qualified personnel would jump to nine due to the required apprenticeships of changers adapting to the new, and potentially confusing, technology.

In our ongoing efforts to illuminate the luminaries as incandescently as possible we would simply note that the state, schools, and city, are mired in a deep budgetary crisis (Detroit needed nearly $200 million from the federal government, err nation's taxpayers, to stay afloat), and that the typically ludicrous, but sadly expected, spending on those who believe they are entitled has to end now.

The current situation is bad enough to make some voters long for the salad days of the felonious Kwame Kilpatrick regime.

And that would undoubtedly require a whole lot more protection for everyone.


In lame Big Ten news, we got the announcement that the new divisions will be named "Leaders" and "Legends." "Lame" must've been close to making the cut. Since the conference doesn't pay attention to the number of members (which we don't mind), and eschewed geography for alignment purposes (which we do), then we suppose that there was little else the commissioner could do in the naming realm, but nonetheless, the new names are really a shame.

If the early Vegas line is any indication, the Big Ten is in for a tough bowl season. Of the eight teams invited to the faux postseason, only the Buckeyes are favored (by three over Arkansas) while the other seven teams are dogs ranging from one point (Missouri over Iowa), two (Baylor over Illinois), three (TCU over Wisconsin Go Badgers!), six (Miss. St. over Michigan), seven (Florida over Penn State), nine (Texas Tech over Northwestern), and 11 (Bama over MSU).

Interestingly, the conference's first three games will be versus Big 12 teams, the next three against SEC teams, then the red-headed (no offense, Dave) Mountain West (TCU, which is moving to the Big East), and finally the SEC again.

Since there are no games versus the fairly stout Pac-10, and since the Big 10 has no games versus the extremely weak ACC and Big East, the conference is being given a chance to put a large, Malachi Crunch-style, dent in the perception that the SEC is king (and the Big 12 is queen?).

We're hoping for a conference sweep, but matchups matter, and when 87 percent of the teams are underdogs the chance for such an outcome doesn't seem so promising.

For comparison, the SEC is favored in 70 percent (7 out of 10) of their bowl games.

The youth soccer effect (everybody is a winner) is clearly illustrated when you notice that, of the 23 teams in the combined SEC and Big 10, only five stayed home (Vandy, Mississippi, Indiana, Minnesota, and Purdue), meaning that nearly 80 percent of the member teams will be playing in the postseason.

TCU is ranked No. 1 in the nation in total defense, giving up only 11.4 points per game and 89 yards rushing, which should pose quite a test for Bucky's offense which is averaging 43.3 points per game and 247 yards rushing.

Interestingly, TCU's offense is also averaging exactly 43.3 points, per game meaning that both Rose Bowl teams are tied for fourth-best scoring offenses in the nation.

In the past 64 years, only four teams NOT from the Pac-10 or Big 10 have been in the Rose Bowl (Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, and Miami). TCU will make it five.

By getting two teams into BCS bowls, the conference will receive $27.2 million ($21.2 from the Rose and $6 from the Sugar) which will be divided equally among the members (and league honchos) for a payout of $2.47 million per school.

The Wolverines made just four field goals this season which was the lowest number in the world of college football.

The Michigan/Mississippi State game should be high scoring with both teams running gimmicky spread offenses against somewhat suspect (Miss. St.), and obviously porous (Michigan), defenses.

Former Michigan State coach Nick Saban, and national title winner with Alabama last year, will be coaching against his former Spartan team.

The last, and only, time the Badgers played the Horned Frogs it ended in a 14-14 tie. The game was played on September 26, 1970.

Joe Paterno announced he would return as coach next season, while Urban Meyer (on the one-year anniversary of his decision to retire and unretire a day later) retired so he could spend more quality time with his family.

Since Meyer is 46 years old, and Paterno has been coaching for 46 years, we will make the leap and conclude that JoePa wants to spend as little time with his family as possible.

When Penn State and Florida meet in their bowl game, this will certainly be a dominant and dichotomous topic of discussion.

We are trying to confirm a rumor that Brett Favre issued a statement, presumably via Ed Werder, saying he wished Urban would just make up his mind.

During an appearance on Sportscenter last Thursday, Mel Kiper said that the Meyer retirement situation proves that, "money can't buy happiness."

Simple question for Mel: If Urban didn't have enough money (by his personal definition) would he really quit his job at age 46 to spend more time with his family or would he decide that he needed the income and couldn't afford to retire? Money buys, and it is a hard fact to deny.

When Meyer returns to coaching will we then hear that he wants to spend less time with his family?

With around 8,000 students, TCU has an enrollment that is less that Division III powerhouse UW-Whitewater (the alma mater of Julie, the wife and boss of my life), which boasts approximately 11,000 brilliant geniuses.

Whitewater is in the playoffs (novel concept) and gunning for another national title (winners in 2007 and 2009, runner-up in 2005, 2006, and 2008) on Dec. 18 (3:30pm on ESPN2).

Their opponent in the Amos Alonzo Stagg (party) Bowl is Mount Union, who has won the championship in six of the past ten years.

Astonishingly, this is the sixth straight year that the Whitewater and Mount Union dueling dynasties have played each other in the championship game.

Amos Alonzo Stagg coached the University of Chicago Maroons from 1892-1932 and led them to national titles in 1905 and 1913.

Largely unknown fact: The Maroons were members of the Big Ten from 1892-1939.

Odd fact: Stagg also coached the baseball and basketball teams at the University of Chicago.

Fun fact: All of TCU's living alumni (77,500) could camp in Camp Randall with plenty of room for campfires and camp counselors.

Wisconsin is going for its fourth consecutive Rose Bowl victory (winners in 1994, 1999, and 2000). We were fortunate enough to attend the game in 1994, a 21-16 victory over UCLA (playing in their home stadium), and consider it one of the best sporting moments in our, albeit sheltered, lives.

The only other Big Ten team to post a Rose victory in this century (other than Wisky in 2000) was the Buckeyes, who defeated Oregon (January 2010). Purdue (2001), Michigan (2004, 2005, and 2007), Illinois (2008), and Penn State (2009), all traveled west and lost and three Rose games did not feature a Big Ten conference participant.

The last Wolverine bowl victory was against Florida (41-35) in the Capital One Bowl on January 1, 2008 (Lloyd Carr's last game and we would wager that he is still smiling).

Penn State won the Capital One Bowl, January 1, 2010, over LSU by a score of 19-17.

Iowa defeated Georgia Tech 24-14 in the Orange Bowl on January 5, 2010.

Michigan State's last bowl win came against Fresno State (44-35) in the Silicon Valley Classic way back on Dec. 31, 2001.

Illinois last won a bowl game in 1999 when it defeated Virginia in the Bowl (and then the .com bubble burst).

Fans of the Illini and MSU shouldn't fret too much considering that Northwestern, since defeating Cal in the 1949 Rose Bowl, has lost every bowl game (seven total appearances) they've been invited to, including three games in the last five years.

Jenny, the Canadian governor, wrote on Op-Ed for Politico titled, 'How to Win the Race for Jobs' in which she said, "Washington can take a lesson from what is happening in Michigan."

She is correct; a lesson can be learned from what is happening in Michigan, just not the lesson and policies that she is espousing, such as targeted subsidies for select industries, forced unionization, and onerous business taxation and regulation.

The lesson that should be learned is the Costanza lesson of doing the opposite. If the federal government does the exact opposite of what Granholm's central planning model dictates, then jobs will be created across the nation. If they instead choose to follow her lead, expect jobs to be created in select pockets of the nation (world) where the business climate is favorable and also in particular industries that our leaders deem worthy (of taxpayer subsidy).

Our limited-vision leadership continues to trumpet the success of "smart" zones and other business incubator-style inducements. They never seem to make the connection that what works on a miniature scale might work on a grand scale.

We would envision Michigan as a "smart" state (thus taking jobs from other states in all, rather than those deemed worthy, industries).

Or better yet, make the U.S. a "smart" country (thus taking jobs from all over the world).

At 3-10, the Lions season may not have been the success many fans were hoping for, but by possibly delivering a death blow to the Packer playoff hopes, the team gave the dwindling masses a reason to let out a Christmas cheer.

Whoo hoo! The first Chevy Volt rolled off the assembly line last week. Now the taxpayer, who was forced to keep GM breathing with a large influx of dollar-based oxygen, will begin giving tax benefits to their fellow citizens in the form of tax credits used to purchase the car, in a sure sign that free markets are damned.

During his Heisman acceptance speech, Cam Newton said, "My parents do a lot of things behind the scenes that go unnoticed."

Perhaps they are unnoticed by Cam but a lot of people are aware of some of the behind the scenes activity of his father, Cecil.

In fact, 105 voters, wisely, in our view, left him off of their ballots.

As he continued to speak with Chris Fowler, he said that he chose Auburn over Mississippi State because, "Auburn possessed what's best for Cam Newton."

Note: We still enjoy when athletes refer to themselves in the third person.

Earlier this fall, he said that he allowed his father to make the decision for him so now we have a contradiction, which to many in the legal realm, is a flag colored after the team that we will be rooting for in the Rose Bowl.

During the trophy weekend, he was also asked about his reported statement to a Miss. State recruiter that the Auburn, "money was too much."

He answered by saying that he wasn't going to entertain any questions "regarding any situation about that right now," and added, "The last thing I would like to do is talk about something of that caliber."

We believe that it is the last thing that he wants to do. His goal right now is to be eligible for the title game and then get paid, above the table, to play.

We can't understand why there are so many people making the point that there was no advantage gained via the Newton bribery efforts. What if Mississippi State had chosen to pay his dad and, due to that fact, Cam didn't go to Auburn? That would have certainly changed the football landscape by taking an advantage away from Auburn.

If, when, Cam gets stripped of the Heisman, an award that profusely professes (on its site) to value integrity, who is actually punished?

Certainly not Cam.

If, when, Auburn gets stripped of their (potential) title who feels the pain?

Certainly not Auburn.

Just in time for the office Christmas party, well, any party really, comes news of a breakthrough product for people who can't find enough ways to consume alcohol; flavored whipped cream infused with booze. A 30-proof dessert topping that comes in such classic tastes as chocolate and raspberry. Get your Whipped Lightning today!

And the reason we advise getting it today is because it won't be long before our overly protective parental government will outlaw this travesty of dessert topping. It'll be what the 536 people believe is best for you, because you are not capable of making wise decisions for yourself.

Former Tampa Bay Ray Carl Crawford signed a monstrous green contract to play in the Fenway outfield.

In the world of nonsense that is baseball it is common practice for teams that become competitive like the aforementioned Rays to see the Red Sox and Yanks poach their talent with offers that can't be matched.

If you can't beat 'em, buy 'em.

How long will fans, of roughly 75 percent of the league, continue to support their glorified farm teams?

The city of Detroit finally found a way to get Monday night football at Ford Field. Invite teams other than the Lions to play.

It was the first Monday game in Detroit since 2000 (MM).

It is sad that on a day when the Lions got such a huge win that the league unintentionally put the spotlight back on the Lions decade of futility by moving a Monday night game to Detroit.

Last Thursday, Mike (Golic) and Mike (Greenberg) actually, gasp, made a rational point (or at least one that we agree with). When discussing the difficulty spread offense quarterbacks (we would broaden the discussion to other players in the spread system) face when trying to make a successful move to the NFL, each said that they would send their quarterback son (if they had one) to a school that played a pro-style offense.

It is a point that we have been making for years, because the best way to prepare to pay-for-play (unless Cecil Newton is your father) on Sunday is to play in a similar system on Saturday.

It is a point that pro-style collegiate recruiters are certainly hammering home with top recruits.

Related: Last week, quarterback Kevin Sousa (Orlando) rescinded his commitment from Michigan and chose perennial power Wake Forest instead.

The amount of our money that goes to pay the interest on the debt in fiscal 2010 was about $164 billion (up an astonishing 18 percent over 2009). That puts interest expenses behind only budget behemoths Medicare/Medicaid ($745 billion), Social Security ($680 billion), and defense ($660 billion). Nah, nothing needs to be done.

When the Broncos announced that Eric Studesville was their interim head coach running back Lance Ball said, "Aye this is the closest thing to Obama being elected president!!!!"

Fans of the Chiefs, Raiders and Chargers hope that Ball is accurate in his assessment and Studesville is as successful as Barry.

Oh yeah, Favre's streak ended. We were hoping he would make it to an even (regular season) number of 300 games so it would be easier to remember.

Still, 297 games is amazing, so we congratulate Punx on the achievement. Let the retirement watch begin.

We're going to take a couple of weeks to focus on what is really important this time of year.


Actually, we are going take a couple of weeks (no column on Dec. 21 or 28) to allow the carpal tunnel to heal and to spend some quality time, and some non-quality time (we believe in equality when it comes to quality), with family, friends, and Urban Meyer.

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Until next time, have a great Festivus, dominate the feats of strength, air the grievances, and go Big Ten!

Gotta go, it's time to comfort a clearly disturbed Mister Man, a cat known to many as Bob Cobb. Perhaps some Whipped Lightning will do the trick.



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