Before we start, it’s important that we all know what “Juventus” is.

They’re an Italian soccer team, based in Turin, and they’re one of the top squads in the country. Some of the sport’s most recognizable athletes, like Michel Platini, Roberto Baggio and Zinedine Zidane, have played for Juventus. I’m not sure what significance Juventus holds to the U.S. government or why they’re a more appropriate invite to the White House than, say, a team of 9-year-old soccer players from South Dakota. But in the White House, Juventus was the other day, dressed in white hoodies that helpfully said “Juventus” on the front, just in case someone forgot.

I admit, the font on the sweatshirts was a little “exotic,” but still, I’m confident that most of us could have discerned from context clues like their athleisure attire and lack of pancake makeup that they were something other than FOX News commentators. Maybe there are lots of rightwing influencers and podcast guests about the grounds these days, but even so, this was clearly a group of dudes who’ve trained for years to become very, very good at running for 90 minutes straight — not for lecturing an assembled press corps about travel bans, Mideast conflict, autopens and transgender athletes.

But President Donald Trump still chose to quiz them about his political topics du jour. “Could a woman make your team, fellas?” he asked the soccer players. Met with polite crickets, Trump pressed further, going on about Joe Biden’s aides allegedly using an autopen to sign documents and other off-topic rambles. The Juventus guys just stood there, probably wondering if they were hallucinating or if the world’s most powerful man was actually yammering on about Iran to a group of Italian athletes.

“See? They’re very diplomatic,” Trump eventually said when he got no response. Ah, yes, diplomacy in the White House. I remember it well.

On Wednesday, Trump had another awkward exchange, this time with workers installing a flagpole near where he was having a press conference about deportations. Possibly realizing that many of the people doing the dirty work in our country are not legal immigrants, Trump turned to one of the folks putting up the flagpole and asked this: “Do we have anybody here? Any illegal immigrants?” It’s like going to dinner with your drunk uncle who won’t stop asking the waiter what kind of name “Manuel” is.

Shockingly, no one wanted to Spartacus themselves at that point, and Trump go no response.

I mean, I’d die to meet the person with the nerve to raise his hand and volunteer, “Yep! Me! Illegal immigrant right here!” But apparently not a single White House facilities worker was willing to answer in front of TV cameras and dozens of witnesses. Trump tried to reassure them. Come on, just be honest. What’s the harm? It’s not like we’re going to haul you off to a dank prison in El Salvador, where you’ll never be heard from again.

“Don’t worry, I think you’re going to be OK,” he said to one guy. “I’ll be right behind you. Far behind.” For some reason, I can’t stop thinking about the talk show hosted by Hugo Chavez, the former president of Venezuela.

The TV show, “Alo Presidente” (or, “Hello, Mr. President”), ran from 1999 to 2012. On it, Chavez would ramble for hours, jumping from subject to subject and quizzing his deputies and cabinet ministers on all manner of topics. Often, he’d use the show to break news, once ordering on live TV a general to send 10 battalions of troops to the Colombian border. Frequently, he’d point to a random building owned by a rich person and shout, “Expropriate it!”

Chavez was a populist, the kind of politician who comes to power based on his ability to appeal to the masses, persuading regular people that he’s the only one who truly cares about them. Once authoritarian populists come to power, they systematically remove the checks on them that preserve democracy.

During Chavez’s presidency, he weakened the judiciary, increased the debt, and allowed corruption to skyrocket. He destroyed the country and set it up for the crisis in which it currently finds itself, beset by hyperinflation and rampant poverty.

But Chavez was skilled at one thing: He knew how to put someone in an awkward spot so others could glory in their squirming. He displayed his power by belittling, by publicly embarrassing people, or forcing them to embarrass themselves. He knew the powerless liked to see someone else kicked around for a change.

It’s a familiar tactic, from Venezuela to the United States of America.

I suppose you could call Chavez a “populistic humiliator,” a politician who employs discomfort for entertainment and power purposes. He wasn’t the first to use the technique, and obviously, he won’t be the last, either.

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